My Best Friend: Mary Ann Marzullo
( The Samra Knapp Interview)
It’s been said if you want to commit murder – come to Syracuse, New York.
As ridiculous as that might sound it may not be that far from the truth.
At the Top of the Unsolved Murder Mysteries list just has to be the murders of two teenage girls, Mary Ann Marzullo and Jacqueline Saunders on August 11th 1967 in Mattydale, New York.
They attended the Fireman’s Field Days in Mattydale that evening.
One of the girls, Mary Ann Marzullo called home at 11 P.M. to say she’d be there in 5 minutes.
Mary Ann and her friend Jacqueline Saunders never made it.
Their bodies were discovered in a field the next morning bound together.
Frank Guiltieri, the District Attorney at the time was confident an arrest would be made in 48 hours.
59 years later, in 2026 no arrest has ever been made.
In this interview we speak to Samra Knapp who was Best Friends with Mary Ann Marzullo.
Q – Samra, how is it you got to be best friends with Mary Ann Marzullo?
Did she live in your neighborhood? Did you know her from school?
A – She did live in my neighborhood. Yes, I got to know her at school. I spent the night at her house many times. We were adolescents. I used to spend the night over there quite often actually. Her parents were pretty good parents. They both worked hard. So, there’s very little supervision going on at the home.
I left my red boot over at her house. I never did find it. Kids pack their things up when they spend the night. They always forget something. I forgot my red boot. O.K. I only had one, the right one.
Monday in school, a year after Mary’s death, Tom Marzullo ( Mary’s brother) walked past my desk at school and took the missing red boot and put it on my desk, not making eye contact with me and walked to his seat in the back of the class. I looked back at him and he still would not make eye contact with me. I don’t understand why that happened. It was a very odd thing that happened. I remember going home and talking to my Mom and Dad about it. Then I left it alone until now. I don’t know why he put that red boot on my desk. That bothers me. Couldn’t he have said, ‘Listen, I found your red boot at the house? You want to put it in your locker’ Something like that.
Q – I’m going to talk about Tom further into this interview.
But, what kind of a girl was Mary Ann? Was she outgoing? What was she interested in? Was she interested in music or sports?
A – She was very interested in music. She was very sweet and laid back. A little shy. She was a lot different than Jackie. Two different personalities. Where Jackie was boy crazy, Mary liked her boys too but she wasn’t upfront about it. She didn’t have to be. She was beautiful. She could have any boy in school she wanted. She was absolutely gorgeous. So, I never understood why she would get into a strangers car. That was my biggest thing back in the day. Why would she do that? Because she wouldn’t have.
I was supposed to be at the Field Days that night with them. I did not go. I don’t really know why I did not go. I’ve been asking myself that question. I might have been a littler envious she was hanging out with Jackie and maybe that’s why I didn’t go.
So, I kind of thought if I would’ve ever gone would that ever happened or would I not be here anymore? Who knows? I don’t know.
Q – Would you happen to know if Mary Ann and Jackie would walk to the Field Days and back home prior to August 1967? Was that common for them to do?
A – It was common for all of us to walk places and ride our bicycles wherever we wanted to go. It wasn’t like today’s world.
My Mom was different. She would make sure she was following me with a car. I was always being stopped by my parents.
Unfortunately Mary’s parents both worked. Her Dad owned a restaurant (the Pine Lounge on Burnet Ave. in Syracuse). I don’t know what her Mom did. I’ve forgotten. It was very common for us to walk back and forth from the Field Days.
Q – Did you ever go with Mary Ann and Jackie to the Field Days prior to August 1967?
A – No. I’ll be honest. I really didn’t have much affection for Jackie, O.K.? I never hung out with the two of ‘em only Mary by myself.
Q – Did Mary Ann ever talk about someone paying unusual attention to her? Maybe a neighbor? A student in her school? Maybe even a teacher?
A – She never spoke about it. She never spoke about anything like that. She never mentioned anything like that to me.
Q – On the evening of August 11th 1967 , were Mary Ann and Jackie walking around the Field Days with one boy or a group of boys? Do you know?
A – I don’t know. I imagine if I was a young man at that age and saw Mary I’d probably want to walk around with her. So, I can’t say for sure. I can’t give you a definitive on that one.
Q – Other kids who attended the Field Days that night in August 1967 had their parents pick them up when the Field Days ended.
You’ve already mentioned that both Mary Ann’s parents worked. I don’t know if Jackie’s mother drove or not. Her father had passed away in the early 1950’s.
Most kids had their parents pick them up or if they couldn’t do it arrangements were made for a taxi to pick them up. So why didn’t that situation happen for Mary Ann and Jackie?
A – I love that question. I remember my Mom sent me a cab to get me one time.
I’ve thought about it. Why were they allowed to walk? What I know is a little different from what the papers are telling and what other people are saying where they walked to.
I know it was told they may have walked back to Mary’s house and changed their clothes. I don’t believe that. I don’t believe that at all. It was too late. Mary’s Mom would have gotten home about quarter to twelve. They wouldn’t have had time to go home and change clothing and get out of the house.
Q – Let’s say if they did go home and change their clothes and went back out again,where would they go? They were 13 and 14 years old. Not for last call at some bar. The drinking age was 18 at the time. Maybe a fast food place? But, I don’t even know how late a McDonald’s, an Arby’s or a Burger King would be open back then.
A – They were never open that late back in the day. Things closed up pretty early.
Like I said earlier, the kids were not supervised at Mary’s house. I think Tom (Mary’s brother) had a lot of weight on his shoulders too being the boy. I don’t understand that. My Mom never understood that. My father never understood that.
There should have been a taxi or someone else to pick them up. My goodness, they could have called my Mom and Dad and they would have done it.
But, I think Jackie got Mary interested in going with some boys or somebody in order to be where they were found.
I also hear they went to Jackie’s house and I heard the door was locked and they had to walk back to Mary’s house. That’s what I heard. True or not I don’t know.
I was so young at that time. It doesn’t make sense to me that they went to Mary’s house to change unless they really scooted in fast and had a ride waiting for them somewhere because where else would they go at that hour of the night? There wasn’t much to do after 11 o’clock on a weeknight or a weekend. We just hung out together at each other’s basements. That’s where we usually were – at somebody’s house listening to music and hanging out.
Q – Which was a safe place to be actually.
A – Yeah. I’m glad I was there.
Q – One article has it that that when Mary Ann said she was going to be at a certain place at a certain time she was there. She was punctual.
That being said, if it was out of the ordinary for Mary Ann not to be home after calling home and talking to her brother , telling him she would be home in 5 minutes and she never arrived, why then did Mary Ann’s mother drive around Mattydale for 4 hours looking for her and Jackie? Why didn’t she call the police immediately?
A – My question too. That was my question then. It’s my question now.
Whoever did this took my best friend. She was reliable and trustworthy. I loved her. I still love her.
Jackie was a boy chaser. She loved boys. I’m going to come right out and say it, she loved having sex.
She liked being with boys.
Q – She was 14?
A – She was 14. She was a little older than Mary and I.
Q – But she loved having sex?
A – Oh, yes. She was one of those girls. You have those in school. I believe Jackie used Mary as a friend to go pick up boys. Now, Mary did have a steady boyfriend. I don’t know if you knew that or not.
Q – I had not heard that.
A – O.K. His name was Louie Bernadini. He really cared for her a lot.
Q – Was he with her that night at the Field Days?
A – No. It’s what I find interesting. If he was there they didn’t know he was there. Let’s put it that way.
Q – Did you go to Mary Ann’s wake? Did you go to Jackie’s wake?
A – Yes, I did. I went to both of them. I remember it like it was yesterday. The wake was a little blurry because my eyes were blurry with tears. I couldn’t believe it.
Q – I was told that Mary Ann’s coffin was closed and there was a photo of her on top of the coffin. Do you remember that?
A – Yes, I can see it.
Q – Her body couldn’t be shown because there were so many cigarette burns on her body. Have you heard that before?
A – I have back in the early days. My Mom told me about that. I don’t know if that was true or not. I believe it. If they were beaten the way they were, beaten and tied behind each other. I also heard that Jackie’s ear turned white with fear. Is that true? I don’t know. My mother told me a lot of other things. Were tree limbs used to sexually molest them? Or was it such a turn on for them that they satisfied themselves while the girls were tied up? There’s all kinds of crazy things that go through peoples’ heads when they’re doing stuff like this.
Q – What was Jackie’s wake like?
A – You know what? I hardly remember that one. I remember Mary’s but I hardly remember Jackie’s. I was there but it seems to be obliterated from my mind other than the fact that we were there. We paid our respects.
I wasn’t there because I just wanted to be with Mary. I didn’t like Jackie let’s put it that way. I didn’t like the bad influence she had on Mary which is why I wasn’t with them at the Field Days that night.
Q – Who did you go to the wake(s) with? Your mother?
A – I went by myself with friends. My sister went with my mother and to this day still complains that my mother dragged her to the wake.
Q – I had a brief conversation with Tom Marzullo on July 21st 2017. He said his father was “acting weird at the wake”. I didn’t press him on what he meant by that. Would you know what he was talking about?
A – Oh, my goodness. We were talking about that. I’m trying to go way back there now. We were talking about the weird man. Who was he? Why was he acting like that?
Q – What was he doing?
A – He was just very jittery, walking back and forth mumbling. My friends and I were looking at each other going what in the world is going on? We just kind of brushed it off as maybe he’s just a distraught person over this.
Q – He probably was thinking to himself this could have been avoided if only a ride had been arranged for his daughter and friend.
A – Exactly. However with Jackie the way she was she was used to getting away with what she wanted to. Her Mom was a widow. She was home alone. She locked the doors. You couldn’t get in. That’s what my Mom told me.
My Mom actually drove with Detective Burns . He’s no longer with us. He died at an early age. I hung out with his daughter Helen Burns.
My mother went to Jackie’s house with Detective Burns and inside the garage my Mom said Detective Burns told her if she heard gunshots to duck down.
Q – Why would anyone try to fire into the garage?
A – I don’t know. I wish I had been my age now back then because I would’ve been asking a lot more questions than when I was 14.
My mother said after they drove away Detective Burns said, ‘Did you notice in the garage the rope they had in there tied in knots?’ My mother said, ‘No’. Detective Burns said, ‘Those ropes are tied the exact same way Mary and Jackie were tied together.’
Q – Tommy was describing to me the throngs of people coming into Mary Ann’s wake. People would say to him,‘ I didn’t know Mary Ann but…..’ and Tommy was thinking if you didn’t know her, why are you here? He never fully grasped the impact these murders had on the community.
A – Never. I was listening to the radio, WNDR and my sister Paula and I were sitting there and they announced it on the radio and I was in shock. I broke my 45 record in half.
My Mom and Dad were pulling into the driveway and I told them what was going on. I couldn’t believe it. I was in shock. It was not something you expected to happen.
Our community was close knit. We knew everybody pretty much and if we didn’t know them we would eventually.
We had a good school back then. North Syracuse had the best school system back then. Not anymore. But, it used to be.
Q – You’re talking about Roxboro Jr. High School.
A – Yeah. Right next door was the Catholic Church. We’d go there to have our religious classes. We’d go to the diner and we’d take a pathway and end up being at the high school too. We walked all the time. It was not unusual for me to walk from North Syracuse to west Monroe and back again. We were allowed to go a long way and back again.
Q – In the daytime?
A – Yes. Not at night. My mother would have been following me with her car. She followed me on Halloween, me, my sister Paula and little sister Lena. We were always being monitored but in Mary’s case that did not happen. She did not have that kind of family unfortunately.
Q – Did you ever hear kids in the school talk about Mary Ann’s and Jackie’s murders?
A – Just a little bit here and there. Not much. I saw a lot of kids crying. We all cried. We were all in disbelief and I’m sure they talked. I know I talked a lot with my friends about what could have happened.
Q – I’ve heard that during Prom Season Mary Ann’s classmates would go to her gravesite before the Prom and place flowers on her grave. Did you participate in that?
A – I know a lot of kids would go to her gravesite but I didn’t hear about a bunch of kids going at the same time.
I went but I usually would go alone.
Q – Do you know if the F.B.I. was ever called in to help investigate? And
How about a psychic?
A – I know they never hired a psychic. I don’t know about the F.B.I. They could very well have had the F.B.I. come in.
I’m almost crying thinking about my girlfriend having cigarette burns all over her body. They died a torturous death. I know they died a torturous death.
I know there are people who are my age who would love to see this case closed.
I keep praying please let’s get this case closed. I just want closure.
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©Gary James
